Ryan: Hello and welcome to Fiverrcast, the official Fiverr podcast for sellers, by sellers. I am Ryan AKA “Customdrumloops” on Fiverr.
Adam: And I’m Adam also known as “Twistedweb123” on Fiverr. Today we are actually joined by two guests who are Mary “Uniquefivex” and Danilo “Logo_business”.
Welcome to the show guys. Why don’t we start with you Mary? Give us a little bit of information about yourself. I mean you’ve been on the show before.
Mary: Yeah, this is my second time. My name is Mary also known as “Uniquefivex”. I’m a top-rated super seller and ambassador on Fiverr. I’ve been working on Fiverr for over five years now. I started off doing some graphic design work which eventually evolved into me doing video production and animation, whiteboard animation and explainer videos and I just actually started offering voiceovers a few months ago.
Adam: Well, great to have you back on Mary. How about yourself Danilo? Why don’t you tell us a little bit about yourself and your background?
Danilo: Hi guys. This is my real first time on Fiverrcast and for me it is a real pleasure and thanks so much for having me. My name is Danilo. I’m a graphic designer for 10 years. I’m also the owner of a small graphic design company in Italy and I’ve been working on Fiverr since 2011 and I became a top seller, super seller and obviously a proud ambassador. For a couple of years, I’ve been working fulltime on Fiverr and mainly I sell logos.
Ryan: It’s great to have you both on the show. So let’s jump right into the topic today which is packages and packages were introduced a few months ago to Fiverr and different sellers in different categories have had the opportunities to use them and implement them. I know every seller views packages differently and has a different strategy. So Mary, why don’t you go into how you use packages and what you like about packages and where you think there could be improvement?
Mary: Sure. I started off with the – when they introduced the packages, I transitioned to using the single package option on my whiteboard Gig and explainer video Gigs. I felt that it was a very similar but cleaner layout to how the Gig page looked prior to Fiverr adding the packages and I wanted my existing and repeat buyers to feel comfortable reordering with me in a similar way to how they had done so in the past. I felt that single package view was definitely the way to go for most of my Gigs.
Ryan: It’s interesting because I do the explainer videos as well and I find a lot of business comes through the messaging system. So when you have that single package layout, it lays out the specifics very clearly and then getting a message, you can sort of lay out the price and break it down there. So I find I do more orders through a custom quote which is why I chose to keep the single package and also with the others because there’s a set of things you can choose that are standard rather than customizable. I found a lot of things I could explain like custom fonts or colors or things like that, that you couldn’t include in the packages, that you could include in the single package and the description.
Mary: Right. I feel like buyers are able to cherry-pick the exact extras that they want and I am in the same mindset as you. I wanted to keep the Gig extras visible. So buyers can pick out the specific options they want and be able to see exactly how much each extra is. I was playing around with the idea of triple packages because I think that it’s a very nice layout and it’s probably easier to upsell with. But I ended up using the single package option because it just suits what I do better mostly with the animation. Most of the time I sell via custom quote as well like you do. So having each extra priced out for the buyer to see makes it easier for them to understand everything that’s going into the total cost.
Adam: Yeah. I imagine one of the key differences there between the triple package and the single package is me and Danilo at the moment use the triple packages but the service that we use them on, mainly design-based, is quite a capped service if you like where we say you can order this lower package or this bigger package here. But when it comes to things like whiteboard animation with you and Ryan, really your service is infinitely scaled because it’s based on the length of the time or the amount of words – of the script that you’re including. So you don’t really want to say this is 25 words. This is the 50-word package. This is the 75-word package.
Instead you can say this is the package. We’re starting at 75 words. Order as many as are applicable to you. So it kind of fits that flow better as opposed to maybe limiting or capping what your maximum is.
Ryan: Yeah, that’s very true and I think different categories require different approaches. So that’s why it’s interesting to have sort of two designers on the show today and then two people that do – I do music as well. So I have the explainer videos and the music and it hasn’t come to the music category yet but I’m waiting for it because I actually think that’s a place where I can use it and have it be really helpful whereas the explainer videos, the custom quote feature is much better. As Mary said, you can lay out your extras more clearly and encourage that conversation from the buyer to give the custom quote.
Adam: So this is a message for both Ryan and Mary and it has to do with the pricing of your single package. Now, obviously by switching the packages, the first thing you’re able to do is set a higher base price. You don’t have to start at $5. Now, what kind of made your decision on how high you wanted to set it? Was it looking at what most people were kind of regularly ordering and starting there or was it a case of you wanted to add a premium on your preexisting prices?
Mary: I changed my – first it was $5 as all the regular Gigs on Fiverr were before packages were introduced. I mean I changed my whiteboard animation to be a base price of $25 because that fit my pricing module a bit better.
Same for explainer video. It starts at $50 and I was basically just going off of the way I price them before packages were introduced and I think being able to start them out as a higher base price is a great thing for me to have.
Adam: Yeah, because I mean when you look at services like explainer videos, often people will price them at – on the older system, $5 for two seconds, three seconds, four seconds, five seconds, et cetera, and you look at that and you think, “How many people are actually going to want a five-second explainer video?” That’s not really going to be the finished article. So they normally order numerous Gigs. So you kind of put it in a way that you start at $25 and that covers what people would normally order and then move on from that.
Mary: Right, and it eliminates the amount of work that the buyer has to do in calculating the price and actually ordering the Gig.
Ryan: It also eliminated a lot of cancellations because people wouldn’t fully read the description and then place the $5 order and say, “Oh, I misread it. I didn’t know it was $5 per five seconds or $5 per two seconds.” With that higher base price, it gives them the chance to – even if they misread generally, they will say, “OK, well I can either add to it or I can narrow my script down to a certain level that fits with the price.”
Adam: So you’re saying that since you’ve changed the single package option, you’ve seen a reduction in cancellations. Have you seen a reduction in people messaging you beforehand maybe to clarifying pricing?
Ryan: Well, I encourage messaging beforehand so that has stayed the same. I would say they were both single-package pricing in a way because I have the base price. But it was the difference between having the base price as $5 and the base price as $50. Even though the pricing is still relatively the same, if you say it’s a dollar per second, $5 is five seconds or $50 is 50 seconds, they’re actually paying the same thing. But it eliminates the reading of the Gig description.
I think a lot of buyers don’t necessarily do that and if you’re expecting to spend $5 versus $50, for $50 you know you’re going to be getting something that’s I guess more complete versus $5. I think that most people didn’t expect. Oh, that’s only five seconds. I need to cancel this. I didn’t read the description.
Adam: I think that’s a key thing to mention. I think Mary actually mentioned it as well where when you said Mary that you changed the single package view because it helped your previous buyers or returning customers to still understand your system. You both seem to have changed in a way that rather than increase your prices, because packages are now available, you just more collectively put together what they’re normally used to ordering but made it more easy to see single click purchase.
So you’ve really been very cautious about increasing your prices if you like because I mean there is a temptation. This is the first time since the whole that Fiverr has been around that we can set our own base price and I’m pretty sure in the first couple of weeks when packages came out, you saw the temptation of some sellers where instantly their Gig would start from $500 just because they could.
Ryan: Yeah. I mean I think it all depends on how you – what your strategy is with listing those prices. I mean I know you touched on this with the word count. It is interesting that if you said something like the video costs a dollar per word, that seems more expensive than saying $150 per minute.
So I think that base price all comes with how you set up your strategy with your Gig extras and everything like that. For me the single base package allows more freedom to make money on those extras while being clear with the base price.
Mary: Yeah, same here.
Adam: So Danilo, you’re currently on the triple package system.
Danilo: Yeah. First of all, when I see the triple packages and I talk about referring to my category, I think that logo designer, every logo designer, must use only the triple package and not the single package. The packages are a real opportunity for every logo designer. I’ve chosen the triple packages to give me the possibility to embrace a great number of new customers. We differ in the needs and of course to increase my income. I think that with packages, the price setting is more easy now. I think that the possibilities on Fiverr with packages are really enormous at present.
Adam: Yeah. I think when it comes to the logo design category, the triple package option is absolutely key because it’s one of those services where if you’re buying on Fiverr or you go into an agency or just in general you’re looking to buy it, often there will be a different tier of service where they will say, “OK, we can create a logo design for you,” or “OK, we can create a logo design and give you additional files,” or “OK, we can do your branding identity, with your letterheads and business cards.”
The whole system kind of lends itself to be put into packages where you have the different tiers because each customer is going to potentially want different things. Some customers maybe just want a logo to use on their website while others may want a logo that they can print on the side of their car. Whereas when we compare that to the single package option and something like whiteboard animations, they’re kind of priced in a different way as I say where animations have like an unlimited scale but usually logo design and services like that usually fit into the package type persona having three across the board.
Ryan: Yeah, there’s also a wide range of customization. It’s – I touched on this in a previous podcast that people can’t often tell the difference between a $10 explainer video done with a library of characters or Amazon’s $100,000 explainer video. So I think that wide range offers more flexibility when you’re pricing in a category like explainer videos whereas logos, I think it’s great that it laid out in three different packages. It’s very transparent to the buyer what they’re getting with that.
Danilo: At first look, the prices on my packages seem very high. I thought to – for myself but also on advantages for customers. In fact inside of each package, repeat or new users find the same extras that I sold before the arrival of the packages.
For example if you look at my standard package, in reality, it’s my best seller order before. The price of the standard packages now is $45. But you can divide this package. You can find the $5 standard order before. Use the $20 of the fast delivery, do the $20 for the six formats. So I think that if you take a look on my packages, in every single package, there are all the extras that I sold before.
Adam: So you’ve done a similar thing to Ryan and Mary there then where you basically – you’re offering the same thing to the buyers but you’ve basically – if you like, a minimum order amount or a minimum deliverable as opposed to just being the standard logo that might have been offered for $5 before. It’s now the case of you’re going to get these minimum extras on top of it.
But I think when it comes to the pricing, the thing I love about packages is that there is a perceived value behind it. Now what I mean by that is there’s a tipping point where maybe if you go a bit too high, people might think, well, that’s quite expensive. But in general, you usually think a $45 logo is going to be better than a $5 logo. What I actually found in the logo category because I’ve only just switched to packages is since packages came out and a lot of logo designers swapped, I took quite a while to swap.
What I noticed was my larger orders started to quiet down and I started to receive a lot of $5 orders. What I actually put that down to was people looking around in general at the logo design category, seeing higher value leading prices, assuming that they’re going to be a better quality because of the perceived value of that.
Then I actually had all the buyers who only wanted to pay $5 come to me because the second I swapped to packages, I haven’t received a single bottom package order since. All the orders I’ve received have at least been my second package or higher and that’s the only thing that I’ve changed is my lead-in price and how people perceive the quality based on that as opposed to attracting people who’ve seen higher prices elsewhere and want the cheapest possible.
Danilo: For a part, I little bit agree with you Adam. But since the beginning and before packages, I have sold my logos in a really easy way. I charge my customers to provide more variation. I charge my customer to provide the source files of their logos. I charge my customer every time to provide their works in less time and to receive the full copyrights of their logos as well. Again the problem isn’t the platform but the capacity of the seller to upsell his services.
Adam: So I think for anyone listening to this podcast now and thinking about changing to packages or they’ve just swapped to packages, I think it’s worth highlighting that all four of us, as we’ve moved to either single or triple packages, have pretty much kept to our previous pricing structure but we’ve just bought in more of a minimum deliverable as opposed to increasing our price two, three, four, five times just because we have the ability to do so.
Ryan: I think the big thing with that too is you’re given the ability to almost split test your pricing. If you want to – from a psychological standpoint, you have three price points to play with and if you want to drive somebody to a certain price point – say for example the middle price point. The distance in price between the middle and the top price point, if it’s $100, that’s going to be a different perceived value than if it’s $50. So you have a lot of room to play with pricing with that, which I think is a great thing and that’s why that has been the hardest thing for me to not just make that full jump into three packages. In terms of playing with pricing, do you have any plans to change your pricing to play with things like that?
Adam: I’ve personally kept my pricing pretty similar. I think I added $5 on top because I added in some extras. But I know you Danilo, since you’ve swapped to packages, you’ve been playing with your pricing quite a lot.
Danilo: I can say that generally I received less orders but with more economic value. Generally my revenues are increasing and my kind of customers has slightly changed.
At the same time, I also kept a slice – balanced a number of all the regular customers. At the beginning, there are several price tables on packages for several weeks and now I can say that the most ordered package is the pro package and also the most expensive. The game is changing for me.
Ryan: Now I imagine that’s a good thing. It seems like you’re – less time for money and more just the value.
Danilo: Since the beginning on Fiverr, I worked on quantity. I think that now with packages, I have another philosophy to work and that is the quality over the quantity. I think that packages were created to increase the overall quality of the platform. So Fiverr with packages, we become a better place to find professionalism and creativity. Definitely happy buyers and happy sellers at the same time.
Adam: I think as well when it comes to the three-package option, there has been a lot of studies that have been performed on pricing in general and there’s definitely a psychology between having three different pricing structures where you may gain someone’s attention by your bottom price let’s say being $15 but then they may look at the second package and go, “Well, that’s only $10 more. I should probably upgrade,” because they’re going to perceive the second package is going to be better than the first. Then if your pricing is close enough to – between the second and the third, they may just think, “OK, I can get everything or I can get the best of the best laid out here.”
Now I know when it comes to things like logo design, a lot of us are already kind of pitching that pricing structure where we had different pricing structures with extras on top. But the thing that the packages gives us and the layout of it is it gives an easy, digestible way for buyers to see that and kind of make that upgrade or I’ve even had cases where people have messaged me coming on the original price. But then they just want to clarify what’s in the top package and the second they’re really following, they order that because it has still got the perceived “this is the best” and it’s displayed like that on the Gig page.
Mary: I think that triple packages is a simple one-click sort of solution whereas the single package option is a bit more work on the buyer’s end where they have to pick and choose what specific extras they want one by one. So that’s definitely one advantage that triple packages have over single packages.
Adam: I suppose that comes down to your service though because I mean for logo design, most orders – I say one-click process. Then all the information, you kind of give afterwards but something like whiteboard animation really – those services are going to be a lot more tailored to what they want because there are so many different variables.
Mary: Right. It still comes down to what service you’re offering.
Ryan: I mean I think that’s the great part about it is it’s so diverse that it can be relevant to so many different categories. So you need to price and view it strategically as it relates to your category.
Mary: The best part is that you don’t actually have to fully commit your Gig to one package option. You can change your Gig’s pricing structure to single package or triple package to fit how you want to sell your product.
Adam: I will say that the thing I love about the – and I mean absolutely love this about the triple pack option is the amount of customization that we have between the two from – anything from the revisions that we can have built in, but more importantly the different lead times and the different extra fast pricing. I’m really, really waiting for it to come to the business category because to basically give you a real life scenario, at the moment I have a Gig which offers ten tips to improve your website. For $5, which would stay $5, they have the ability to have a report and that goes all the way up over to $100 where they have the ability to have a full video review and so much more in-depth.
Now those reports I can perform a lot quicker than a whole video review. But at the moment, I can only set one extra fast price and I have to set it for my – the biggest package scenario if you like. So it’s currently set at $40 because if someone orders my video review, I can’t offer that in one day for $5. It’s just – I have to. There are commitments to record that video.
But with the new package system when that comes in place, I can say if you want the $5 package with the reports on it, you can have this in 24 hours for $5 more and then I can have the larger package at the current $40 more whereas right now, if a person just wants the report and they want it extra fast, they would have to pay 800 percent more to get it delivered in that time because I can’t change that pricing. But packages allow you to literally customize everything.
Ryan: I mean which is truly beneficial to both sellers and buyers just because it opens up a whole new wide range of options.
Adam: Exactly. I mean at the moment, maybe once in a blue moon, I will receive someone who pays $5 for report and adds on the $40 rush. But I would imagine I would receive a lot more clicks or a lot more purchases of the extra fast on my lower packages if I could do them for something like $5 in 24 hours.
The thing is while you’re talking smaller margins, you’re talking a lot of $5 and $5, when you break that down to percentages and ratios, you would effectively be doubling your bottom line from just giving that further customization. So if for example I only sold $5 orders all month and I swapped to packages and the majority of my buyers went, “Well, it’s only $10 to have this tomorrow,” I would effectively double my whole wage just on that small customization that wasn’t available previously.
Mary: If you have a Gig in the video and animation category, you can actually enable a word count tool that can automatically calculate the total cost of the Gig based on the amount of words in a buyer’s script rather than having the buyer or seller to manually calculate the cost. So that’s something else that triple packages offer for – if you wanted to edit your video or animation Gig. That can help you.
Adam: What I love about the option as well is people often ask on the forums and the blogs and stuff, “When are packages going to be in my category?” and they weren’t released across the whole site. They were released in stages, because the developers are actively listening to sellers and buyers and what they’re looking for. They’re kind of tailoring packages for each category on the site to make it as easy as possible for sellers and buyers. So they had feedback on things like the word tools or the word amounts and now you’ve got that great tool on that specific category.
So for anyone who’s thinking about switching to packages – and this is a question to all three of you – what would your biggest piece of advice be or what you’ve picked up from the experience so far?
Ryan: Mine would be go in with a strategy and go in with a plan. I think the more you take the guesswork out of it, you will have something to track. You will see if it’s working. You will be able to modify your approach because you can change your pricing and I think going in with something laid out that’s a clear plan and a clear strategy will help you track whether it’s working or being more beneficial and then take note of things.
Like Danilo said, he noticed the type of buyers he was attracting was different based on his pricing packages. So it all depends on what you’re looking for and if you approach it with something in mind, something that you’re looking for, you will be able to either attract the right buyer, up sales, up your order average. But having that baseline as something that you’re looking for will help when you’re implementing them.
Danilo: My tips is that on packages, three packages, if you want to upsell better your orders, you should have also valid additional extras not included in your packages to sell better.
Mary: I would say to research other Gigs in your category to see how other people are pricing their Gigs and what kind of packages they’re using and to try to keep your original pricing structure and adapt it to whichever package suits you and what you offer.
Like I said before, you can start with a single package view and then you could change it to triple package view. If that doesn’t work for you, you can change back and you have the freedom to do that, which is great.
Ryan: OK, Fiverrcast listeners. Hot exclusive! Only because you’re listening to this, you’re going to hear the next categories first. Ecommerce, website builders and CMS, WordPress, business copywriting, web and mobile design. That is where packages are coming to next. So if you’re in that category, start thinking about it. Start thinking about if you’re going to do a triple package or a single package and if you’re not in that category, be on the lookout because there are more coming.
Adam: Well, I think that’s all we have time for this week. Thanks again to Mary for joining us. You can find her on Fiverr as “Uniquefivex” and Danilo where you can find him on Fiverr as “Logo_business”.
Our jingle today was made by “Customdrumloops” AKA Ryan and as always, we were edited by “Dansha”. Thanks a lot and see you next week.
Transcription by Prexie Magallanes as Trans-Expert at Fiverr.com